Ep. 8: Is Isaiah Thomas a max player?

Dale & Keefe
Monday, July 10th

Rich Keefe, Michael Holley and Ben Kichen talk about Danny Ainge's offseason thus far. Should Danny give IT a max contract? Has Danny turned the Celtics into a true contender? Has the Eastern Conference lost too much talent? 


Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Michael holly and Ritchie sees he's ever green team ever going to podcast the podcast about the Celtics from red to Russell brown took bird. Parish to pierce everything CE. So let's get to Michael holly and Ritchie and the evergreen podcast. We'll but the fastball podcast here Michael Oliver beaver producer Dave did you have been very busy off season. For the Boston Celtics course highlighted by Gordon Hayward there have been a lot of other moves along the way of course the drafting of Jason Tatum the most recent signing of aired beams the trading of Avery Bradley. Kelly analytic is gonna hear Johnson has gone a Michael I feel about the offseason to this point. I think offseason overall. Has been eager and it shouldn't be this way but it is its way in the NBA. You can't have it shouldn't be that. 812. Really good players. Don't stand up to three great players. I hit it high school basketball. At twelve really good players. We'll be up three reporters. In college basketball it might in the NBA. So. You have you. Get great players sometimes at the expense of really good players and that's where we are where it. Avery Bradley leaving. Particularly Avery Bradley leaving in they were coming it how would I trade. Kelly Atlantic and Avery Bradley for Gordon Hayward yet. Even think but I think that's right right he's a throw pages different in the Paul George Jim Butler conversation and that's still what. A lot of fans are kind of hung up on his RT got a free agent you signed a free agent. But in doing so you had to get rid of Avery Bradley. People love it for good immediate reason yeah I don't lovely you're not over yeah. No problem real not a problem Leo we'll talk shows talk a little bit nice little celebration for Avery Bradley when he comes back first I would Detroit yet. A montage. That will be tears will double our current if Isiah Thomas scores fifty on them when Detroit comes that now. Hello Angel works out there about four originally part of this. Part of this Avery the longest he's your politics. I was. I'll be Eleanor Eleanor was more like I'm NG you know it just kind of the better your mission is Jean I don't know that it wasn't. There. But that was. What happens whenever Hillary haven't ever drug or whatever period. So yeah I mean. Avery Bradley was one of those we talked about it last week those guys it's hard. Article but the come. Avery Bradley does does everything indicative. Her name out there he's either better than or is worse then there's very few really that's kind of where where he falls that they that's weird when it was. You know we were ranking back courts before governance tranda that the guys Avery Bradley back court compared to say John mall Bradley be ill or. You know Millard and calling it it's hard that the put that in because Avery is probably worse offensive player than. Just about any of those elite guard Reynolds. He's a better defensive player that how much weight does that really deserve it. Get his heart disease or worse up with a player easily to. It doesn't. Gore as much as it claiming that they worse but nobody's got a bad. But it public Avery Bradley doesn't do well shoots threes well score -- I don't think I'll do decrease from the corner well yeah Madrid is on shop I don't pledging 40% three point shooter. Last year. Was at that time. And those Jae Crowder so I don't as the numbers while 40% three point shooter good free throw open but if you think he can create his own shop at that Billick last year they only have one guy who could do that. And Avery wasn't that is that is Isiah. Avery yeah holiday better he's become a more reliable shooter but that doesn't mean he's the guy buys into the game. He probably has the ball and he's got to find a way to stay on that definition most guys. What does that Cipro totally like John Wall is a score or your job as a man but I don't think Gil can create his own shot that you do better than Bradley yeah he's we saw that in the he's you know you get him in right situation and I can he can stick. The deal can't put in terms of a here's boy wanna once situation. Seven seconds left on the clock you wanna lower Bradley did a terror is gonna make a move I I'll be more scared of Bradley deal that okay sure. Delgado gone back and I don't miss. I wouldn't miss Bradley deal as recent things we've gone back alleys and if you can hold my heart who's the pump the pump everyone like to use mr. do. Which is another neighbor Bradley all right Carol and not as good as dude you just go out and says pretty. Joseph Dumars I think it's particularly if that's the only has pump that people who really don't do not that there are currently. And that is. All apple does very hard at times that is that is the worst that we do. But I think the defense of part of it even though I think it's great all the players in the legally couldn't believe that he wasn't all NBA defensive. It they don't like going up against them. That is a little overstated rates it says there's a player. You know NBA two K ratings he vote well he's in 99 offense. And he's a closed society defense. And then you reversed those for another player is toning down the guys yet but the guys that as the offensive that an expert defense and it is more valuable in the NBA today. Yet it seems right and I think it it is they make clear of those guys make your shots more difficult to make you work harder. Ultimately they should she down. I got a guy now Thursday. Averaged above normal and be a starter those guys are kind of screw it into George Hill again Avery Bradley that's a tough for George Hill carrier Irving we saw firsthand if he wants to get forty cans aren't as they are under think and I like to route NBA history of those guys who were all who'll always described as these defensive specialist. And people give love but ultimately come. I like very Byrd who stuck while Michael Cooper arranged a match Michael. Is Michael Coopers are gonna stop Larry you there Bruce Bowen yeah. On Kobe. Tony Allen on Kobe remember that all the guys are sort them into Mars it under like NBA finals I remember one year and Coby he didn't have the it was a Westbrook who was laughing when. And this might mean to curry defense on a start laughing yet at the podium yet. How much do it right in front of my eyes at that Kobe during I think woody. When the lakers 12010. A year of shooting percentage when Tony Allen's own music 40%. Called a role does. A month. Are you really think Kobe is you really think Tony Alec and stop me about it. And I need to score bags are out I just concentrate on the issue the next fourteen times on the shortly you'll be out of your final game embassy in Korea that Deco got different Kobe that was a game that was a ghost appropriate that. I'll give a guy who goes to your point though when he. Concentrates on scoring and that's what he wants to do the score did you get a good about his auto will find a way that Ruben Patterson claims to be the Kobe stopper I don't girl out. I'll Kobe's got a large slot as Jordan's our public is the Kryptonite and it's as it did or guts Avery Bradley is gone so. It's going to be a new look team which. I out mum about as that is you are but I did want receiver Bradley go by any means Stanford team that have the number one. Record in the Eastern Conference regular season minutes of the conference finals. Like Danny Ainge is saying oh that's a good team like let's just keep on which he knows that he made comments right after the year was over that we have a lot of good players. We need great players so he's not afraid to get rid of Amir Johnson the token start of a two starters Kelli a Winnick is probably six or seven from the team in minutes really been a Big Three book chemical or guys. Are gone and they're they're bringing in new face that he knows that they need to get better about it really like about. And you look at I mean we we didn't spend much time talking about a clinic for obvious reasons. Analytic is making twelve million dollars a year. It's unbelievable he's never started. I have a consistent starter in the league don't. And he's getting twelve million dollars a year because as though one playoff and because if it's because he's he's a he's a seven footer who can shoot it a little bit from the perimeter and they go for an 80 miles pummeling. He's making to me is not as they got to spend their money somehow some way. And the fact is the third scorer Washington match and then I'll tell you saw them back on all in the in the Eastern Conference semi finals. Third scorer on that team went scoreless in game six shot out. Is a Max contract player he would make over a hundred million dollars and Otto Porter junior making over a hundred million. Sacramento wanted to sign him to the Max Brooklyn did on Cinemax and Washington matched. Wow this could be a whole separate topic it is to meet these GM's and team president I understand. You know you want these guys and if you're Washington you'd begin pretty good thing going on up or a guy you'd drafted number three overall. He's terrible but he certainly not rates. Contracts like that is a completely screws you right here if you wanna pay step Curry's forty million dollars a year Gulfport once you start paying auto order in the no column Ari. In those guys to when he plus million dollars a year that's seen a guy that's gonna ultimately be fired you know it. It's funny. Mark Cuban was taken shots Eastern Conference and we were an east wouldn't be rebuilt in dollars or less so much better. So I see a story how they want to build their team around 45 year old Harrison Barnes. They're big contract rigors of Barnes. Thanks 43 year old Maryland is no way I'm gonna pay them a lot of money. And now he's got Dennis Schmidt since June. So yeah you're young but. Your point everything and all those guys that eventually it is Smith in his second contract got a lot of money for him a lot of money for no well a lot of money bars. Would be done nothing. Yeah that's this is among a lot of money tied up but you're not illegal. Smells like the Isiah Thomas led knicks are a lot of money Eddy Curry a lot of money Tyson Chandler. And now you know that the rest as he says you're young that's like to say they were young yeah okay it's those missiles middle contract had done this way for a long time except now low laws 1012 is not a B 1820. But those the contracts are doing it when you heard the third highest Payer highest paid player on each team. If you look through all these lists the one to have just that stumpel contract how good are they going to be in the big men they get stuck in the in the accurately make any moves from that point. Especially if they have multiple years one year left on you can you can trade dec guides and team all. Try to get a free agency next year. But those the back contracts and so right now the Celtics. This season they have really good contracts. Next season next year and that's what they got out front Avery Bradley because he's another guy problem I like them that you like come on it like. But at that point million dollars you and I don't I get you to our commitment to so that was that's and so they see that Coca. That's why OJ Crowder who we would all admit. Avery browser better players OJ Crowder but you're paying crowd or seven million dollars seven and a half million dollars for the next three years now. Because that type of player. In other markets might be making an 1819 clean and never returned it seventeen to match anyway Danny Ainge is a great general manager team present whenever you want column yet. Because he is established a core without overspending on anybody well back under start yelling. OK EE I would argue that the power or for slightly I mean OK but the cord blood freeagent freeagent however he Jae Crowder you better watch these guys Obama's all undervalued all along great deals all of some of the best deals in the league and then you have. The rest of your team you're also able to you didn't trade oil decks like Cleveland or some of these other league teams. It's so. The guys that are still not your roster rookie deals should also impact the team it's not a Patrick college Golden State liberals they can scrap together and hopefully. They can play like you're here you got three guys are drafted in the top six the early part of your team wants. Funny you guys certainly these great contracts at the Celtics have right now over the weekend. Eight about Avery Bradley Isiah Thomas in Vegas says. They're gonna have to they know it happened back up the Brinks trucks from again today again with the Bronx yes. If they wanna keep them yes. We don't know if they wanna keep. How badly do they wanna keep doesn't want him. Desperately doesn't maxim now and his driving at every year results yet come and hit enter. Yeah if you area that is you can you can see how we react to at this season. This huge guys I don't know I don't answer atomic weapons you have he barely thirty when he signed in the deal that the donor bank. Which is birthday. It's my favorite company Tony and I do innocent lives up. May 28 now is it or is going to be 49 this season he's an art so. The fact is and 229 your Isaiah Thomas empire with the thirty Euro Isiah Thomas of violent. You take Isiah Thomas away from the Celtics. Who okay. Which aren't who you replaced and where. You're not replacing seventeen points. Greatly go to your wanted to do because they were you would you would instantly avenue leading scorer. They were revered endeavor point five he went hey and I tell you would hate of noises Hayward yet via pressure. And Horford the way I can score around here to do that I'd still think you can you can't afford to shoot that ago. Because their place and I'm with you there click I think for this team and you do need to pay him. The Macs now that the four year deal with the option or ever 'cause then you got the look at it and say. Our Jason Tatum you wouldn't have to really pay him yet Jalen brown may be that -- wanna overlap year and on this nets pick you to be on his rookie deal the entire time. And then you know it's it's pretty smooth too because it's time Tatum or brown need to be paid now you're saying goodbye Horford. Yes or personally how yeah. You were molesters is do you Hayward brought you know he's got a chance to take a player option yeah after I just already launched. Elop. And probably will be well you know a decision. In I see you guys this story also by Hayward. Trevor Booker. Who Trevor Booker. Says. Gordon Hayward I'm not surprised by the decision and wanna be there. It going to be even looking for archer personal Trevor Trevor whoever we play a Brooklyn right now quiet quiet out with a man that. And and it never contentment. That. The mayor and then he wanna be the man. Gets it brought. But Italy's and he helped. And then there's a better way to leagues and in my go where I get the more help typical. Chris Paul they have lowered its more help. MBA nobody wants would be this is like it's them you know what could be that guy all by himself as my team. But anybody with me and I can get to to the NBA finals they don't know they can't do. In Alaska like that was probably not even he now knows he needs to be with a good supporting cap wreck that he actually you know he needs to be the two piece. Get team if he wants so when you asked to be the new unity in the same analysis I've peace snow. Umbrella goes and outside people. Hello hello hello I'm Melo is an editor's memo mellow. But it promotes new law Houston. Or Cleveland osu which in Cleveland. That he goes to Cleveland where love is out there works Edwards and I always have buried them a great chance but I think LeBron to make it happen. Right persecuted you know apparently thinks it's true. It mellowed a Cleveland. So. He would use his player option UB. After year yes in the probably yes so to be in treatment for years and worse mentally they're losers Celtics in the in behave in the eastern covers my room where we heard that before non stick with fellow. What mellow thing about it. I don't run you go low oh well I will inherit and something there. Yeah so the favorite as we stand right now it like taxpayers they're the favorite right now and they should be as a assortment bra on the force them to do something. That or she will is his words. Caters to his interest in not necessarily. The long term interest of the cavaliers auditing Chauncey Billups turned that job down and uses of it low ball them money lines and he know that. The broad sleep. About it yesterday and colleagues saying. The low ball offer. They're the don't have a good thing. Yeah it does not too. I've had zero experience what are you making right now audience yeah I don't know that route cuts whenever. Carted out of it's about. Low ball offer. While I have no idea I think you're right now I think it's. You Woodson will prompt going to be on one and put it together he just want to be their from the ballot that but yeah it's LeBron sitting around LeBron interval for your build for a year. And then they're gone anyway and now you're you're stuck there you wouldn't -- a little committed sellers that a lot of and I happened we got diary we've also now we're there we're there at the cavs before LeBron came back with and we've all seen in recent history you can get out of a bad situation put yourself in a better one Jason did you notice had to do yes. With the nets' coaching them didn't like the situation got a better dig out of Milwaukee and his coach and extra they brought up and that's a second ago Trevor Booker. Do you feel like the nets are still one of the three worst teams in the league because. A couple of not really put them in the playoffs but moves that are gonna bother you bother me they Celtics fan. What you owed De'Angelo Russell better than what they have been our DeMarre Carroll better than than what they have there I was up Brook Lopez is kind of staff they get they get hurt him. I think they're good Moscow viewing mounds down analog monster but they think just the Russell and Carol that that addition. Additionally ran away that they were they today raid in he would from either the worst team all year where you need to pay that close attention and they are good but they had a stretch and went seven out of ten men that they've built such a crazy lead for your worst record now I feel like they're going to be much more in the mix it's still a valuable pick but maybe not as valuable as the was a couple of. I think they're still bad because they have MAB. Next year. I mean that not 17181819. The start to improve living yep yep you have been here at their pick back get our vision of the Angela Russell I think is going to be good he's a good player. That DeMarre Carroll not a fan of so he's at a different point in his career Mazda. At a different point in his career. Is not really they have so. Kind of sort of interest in pieces but not enough and make me wonder. What do I do and assume about German Atlanta ranked yes. Let sanity day or Jerry land you have run so and they estimated trade over the weekend. They got they they traded Hamilton who I thought was in good game is the Celtics in game when he got to take had a great game get it felt today while lap again. Now not so social great pick and I thought you know edit I thought they did OK in the draft. Pick drafted all right prediction they covered. Argument at a couple of pigs at the back in Africa so yeah we entered one the players they took. I like. Sacramento to Gary Giles rate was in Brooklyn the Brooklyn taken Sacramento took him like that pickup. Anyway and that adds don't so they helped themselves I thought they got a little a little more interesting but not yet I think is going to Jared Allen. And who's not. That 1004. I got. I was Somalia but they're they're coach Atkinson Guinea act is and is known for. Developing young players don't think Russell. Will will do a nice job there it is. You think they get the lakers pick this year it falls into it they will get it if it's between two and five of our ball obviously thinks that launch though is is gonna bring into the playoffs which would make it would noddle according miraculous which is not gonna happen right. If their value though to bring an agreement summer and a triple double. He's great Ludlum like I hello love at first game was like errors. But I I think what we're eleven ball tackle the reason often are doing differently now pit stops of color but not used to point of the game. Be that doesn't feel like you're getting that economy out of the lakers are going to be good either. But. Six the worst record Jessica and apparently it all into question you guys what do you think was the worst team this year the lakers are Brooklyn. To move. To the Western Conference it is. So we're there yet though if it's or Western Conference. It is so teams one through six are much much better but. The teams and is that the Portland. 500 blow up ordered all I think. There were 500 that we are gonna recyclables here at eight seed that's that's what it's like you're gonna get waxed by Golden State San Antonio Houston and Oklahoma City. But those that teams in the knees are also going to smoke by the Celtics and the cavs and even the wizards of the raptors so. My my first reaction would be okay but the nets and script together few more wins is here in the east but. But non playoff teams in the east versed than on that team in the west they're all pretty bad. I don't think musical three wins necessarily for one team that you know the thing is well who's the best he meant to make Obama. Now Minnesota. And it's all hand and give two teams in the west and actually have retirement account on a town but it Allen. To beat most of those bad teams and ease about much I'm in New Orleans. And Minnesota. So you know that's actually a fair point to is that Minnesota. A lot better a lot about it and look at Chicago Bulls though worse. Worse it's fair to look at last you're standings so it based off of that the lakers just have a tougher schedule so maybe the lakers. Like if it will work right I think that the roster stinks how's this gonna say yeah the Brooklyn viewers because the lakers players that you. MO gloom Randall. I think Bill Clinton and real anger and your anger about it a lot this year he was not the guys cards at all. Marks its arms and Papa got part of that snitch to handle rough scenario as there at all. Watch out. Although I think he's gonna be good. I think he's gonna be good I did do what does that already that's he is he had a good season but I think he's really flourish and yeah and I think that pretty you know what about the aside mr. Milan blah and odorless and after all those trades like who the ten best players in the eastern half. They have ten like him because bacon all sorts in the shoes looked this. It could be Hayward Thomason Horford could be three of attendance. Are Thomas definitely are Marta rose in. Well all right let's look at Cleveland story bigotry so Cleveland's three. All out as if I'm wrong John Wall is four hours ago when retreat. I mean I hit. You can find I'm Alina. But political hit maturity got five regarded as at five without really trying to Cleveland Serena sat like I said eight enterprise easy. But he said hey can I make the all stars they are but where were probably forgetting a couple of good players. Yeah we're we're forgetting some doubted that strapped it now yeah about about that and that's not a Netflix. And back. I don't think like a Millsap gone. Yeah. But the two part Parker might it was a really good player you don't know usually. Humorous you know. Campbell order whether or a career. Made all star team yesterday and Dwight Howard and they give all the more talent from the from the east. I think my biggest notified well liked him. So Lou the Celtics have three of the twelve best players in the eastern and the captain of the in the caps through my all the veterans Celtics and then two wrongs that you. Follows the Austin area date and so those that event here on wall that's not so that the top four seeds should be the say. Let me ask you after all this discount around the Salt Lake Tribune human New Zealand on the slow attribute that I I got I got up Hayward. That's why look on UK rate where they were betray were. That's why look at them because they are. In the day under the guise of investigative journalism industry right now they're really great ignorant Gordon anger. You know so one of the things they had a recap of this story was chasing Gordon Hayward. So it is a behind the scenes of their recruitment hand all the stuff they do it and and mean you know so that arrow. They say they brought the brass to a houses in the game tour of the house on without him to ask them stairway to resolve or over. They surprised them. Are bringing in some amnesty to broaden rubio was when rubio name and I played a little bit of spam in your new teammate go where. And of course Joseph wrinkles you know don't Lego. They are normal way as it is Maybin each yeah. Like my team a year. So there on the backyard and and his teammates have this personal pitch to him day to day. In ownership as a personal pitch them to get a commitment from these days Parker I don't. Don't implement. This idea for a test shot problem not ready to make a decision or commitment. But the one thing they said and wrap well now I just want to get your opinion this. They gave statistical evidence. That Rudy go bear is better than anybody in the I think you can come out of stats to support your argument. You think go bears better and I don't think it is but I'm not shocked at all you can and is now on trade notes on an outrageous take these yeah. But it's kind of sleazy is too strong. But it is up it's a little to try hardy but I think if you. Find some metric where block shots are weighted heavily yeah or you know just certain things like that or like field goal percentage or thinks it's an article there is unbelievable at. Of course you can turn anything around and say he's he's better than. What the Celtics have to offer. At that he used better what's the point think they can he keep Gordon Eric say. Okay Golden State still conference's Santa is still in the conference shoot Oklahoma City did there that you suit Houston did they're still healing that's. Even more glaring than they have legal pair. The okay is that MS guys that are always. Here's the other thing don't come in and you know and felons in the pills to help others regret those cool when. Eight non other dude what you do. You can do your point you know so well bosses that's okay above estimates but you. What do you what what what kind of legal there. Aren't your presentation this the crap about him. Is playing there better than now I think we can boundaries not but it does better than our average that's him right now in right now is. In points and twice as many rebounds. Blocks nor laws on the blocks one more block game about the sixth. Way down from when I point three assist our efforts put throw percentage they go bears like 65% from their from the corporate. Sit there and missed Eiffel Tower in the great nickname I mean nicknames that I now that mistreat their house down and how's that David Farrell and Al Oregon the stifled the Eiffel Tower also on dollars right. There was Eiffel Tower there's French rejection. Of the fabric refresher rejection. That is awesome at the long and biggest wing span and India that. That's. It standing reached. And it says dimpled smile is what it is fun to cover those are aware that with Rudy. Shawn Bradley and road salt could play a small polar and identity or for that there was not demeaning and all. Mama to thank you. Gupta Brodie can look better that it did or did you pat on the head yet that that's behold the bottle. Of the product. Aren't they can you credibly. Argue sides it's funny to me. Again like Gordon Hayward is he's great he is a one time all star. He was on the team for seven years that made the playoffs twice. So it's not like they're losing it's like Cleveland losing on the first on their evilness of selling a loss Karl Malone. And I like they traded away Darrent Williams who mimic coach killer the time Williams did much more and you Todd mid court and electric for awhile right at the masters but every year with them aren't like Boozer. Eight employees and indeed absolutely help team but they were good does and they also were the smoke that we're talking with major diseases right at the end of that they would be active for the and then they got the new ones I think right after their wounds that they wanted it usually deep her. It was a little core. Didn't like him always kinda woke core forgot I have a Raja Bell Williams AK 47 Boozer Erica. Don't forget this year. Brittany there you that's right. And our member at the time oh in this by my last anecdote show at anchor Charles Barkley said it's at the time with that man. I really being that are being insensitive. Is never Fisher was on his dark heart wrenching story about his daughter. Now you know going Los Angeles but he was better for his daughter came back and said Barkley goes. Hospitals that you're. I. Didn't want to play you saw. It get him re. Gonna put upon the top. I don't know our group now. Appear but to Norton and rubber industry particularly pleasant you go to the reportedly. Would you into the huge honor to put the corporately about the girls. I'll let the lakers regular listeners who would you rather have care for your daughter the Jews and LA are the mormons and that is added that the event instead of men. About now take the Jews tend to MFN if it depends a great way to and better polarized. In addition it ever agree will be. Have enough the occasional podcast here throughout the offseason you can subscribe on iTunes the other evergreen channel. Are also on the odd that he media dot com something to listen and we'll talk to next time.