The Mark and Kichen Show - Mark and Ben break down the Ringer's list of top 16 Patriots

WEEI Providence
Sunday, August 13th

Hour 2. Mark and Ben break down and redo the list of top 16 Patriots players of all time that was written by the Ringer this week.


Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Now it's time for marketing pitches I can't wait. For the yanks paid to hit the bad. In terms of this quarterback. I'm lucky cause controversy the situation in Iraq. Jaime struggling. In the first five days you can't beat anything to me now not meaning the guys I got there practice. Well and today. With the guys and it is really a rhyme or reason to assist so that's the so me that loves golf do you hate to find your ball and have to drop it's just a demoralizing feeling. I'm white hat off but I've never felt in my life of no never golf now now. Well it's a very conservative thinking about doing I think that would lead. Not a good thing in a Pebble Beach there are clips there I've been through the course they gave their lives on the there are that you've got to make became a little bit easier it's a tough game you've probably heard that I do know that yet it's a tough game. Once you've got to hit golf while they console him. It's reading of one point seven WEEI. The barn engaging show one of three point seven. WEEI marked on narrowband kitchen near Providence, Rhode Island. Or 0173712874017371287. Or Texas at 37937. We're talking patriots here to begin our two inventing and ask you this question. We think Jimmy grow up blows president's arrival. All of it has done for Tom Brady as any major factor in his late career. Resurgent auto for surgeons is the right word but his ability to stay elite has he Gigi been a major factor in that. Major no minor yes I think it helps fuel this fire a little bit. In terms of now 00 yeah and bring this guy to replace me well I'm gonna show you why you're not actually replacing me is it me or has Tom Brady's deep ball got a little bit better since Jimmy G has Iraq. Well. Is deep ball wasn't very good. At the beginning of his career McCarrick you'd consistently overthrown or under throw his receivers got better with mosque a mosque bailed out all the time. He has never been a great deep ball thrower. But he's pretty good and we're gonna see it this year Brandon Cox has cooks can burn anybody know what is that damn fast so we're gonna see it happen this year I don't know if it's necessarily gotten better. We're gonna see it on display and we're gonna see what his forty year old arm strength really is this year he can still make those. You know deep out throws those are very difficult throws but he can still make those throws and anybody. But those deep throws at the accuracy. Now cooks can't bail out a quarterback like mosque could. Because Mossad is the same speed yet 644. And could jump and use of absolute freak. Cooks can't do that. So won't really get to see this season how good that deep ball actually it is all right. So the ringer had a list a few this patriots week week at the ringer. May rank the sixteen most important people in the patriots dynasty. How do you wanna do the choice is go down the listening to tell me where you have a problem will look like which it'll sure let me start this is lists Sox this with sucks the overall sucks overall I. I don't like I'd like to exercise act but and I like lists this list and it starts off. With a complete dud and it makes no sense but go ahead number sixteen on the list. And is there a reason they pick 166. Seniors. As I would consider it doesn't want to dozens are Dirk sixteen analyst Mo Lewis linebacker New York jets' problem. Yeah linebacker for the New York Jets that's my first prob they got a little cute there they got they they're they're trying to. Yes they are very cute here and it's really dumb. Yeah one play yeah he hurts Bledsoe but yeah who who wrote this crap Robert Mays I don't even know we as Richmond ringer. Never heard them before. If you really did a little bit of digging a little bit of studying you might have found out that but so was potentially gonna get pulled soon anyway. So his hit on Bledsoe doesn't hold really mean. Who too much if he's gonna get pulled regardless. For Tom Brady. It's just dumb it's one play one point sixteen years and he makes your most important. Patriots. Personnel listen whatever. For one play and hit number it so yeah does it help speed things along but it might have been an ever end notable annual Tom Brady was going to find a way on the football. We they all weaker L side in practice they all knew bill certainly seemed to him. I had an idea that Brady was pretty good had a feel he just needed to. At that time I think find out how to. You know I I don't know how to how to phrase it. You know he had to make you work majestically that makes any sense. This guy was the high paid starter he just got the new contract ownership really liked what he saw led like four years left you had to find a way to make it work so people work. Going crazy by Brady was going to get onto the football field one way or another eventually yet that's why I think the inclusion of Mo Lewis is ethnically stupid number fifteen was Randy Moss. A look at that yeah I like I don't have a problem that you know what the clintons actually pretty good too if you think about it and I don't wanna breakdown where their place too much. By mosque should definitely be on this list granted they did win with him. They did set records with him yep and he was fantastic and helped changed their offensive philosophy. For the next for the second half of their dynasty if you wanna call that so yes he definitely belongs on this list he was very important and he was so much fun to walk yet. And he was elite talent he's one of the NFL's greatest ever receivers I know who's only here. What was it 23 years but such an important season such a notable and noteworthy season they went undefeated which I know means nothing to these. A lot of people knowingly means something to me I think that was noteworthy event. I not to mention he almost. Probably should've had the game winning touchdown in super brat here. Fifteen I'm good with him there on OK here's Russia to begin prompt. Number fourteen Ty Law what's your problem I think he's a set top seven guys at least tie allotment this is the foundation of the defense arguably. During the dynasty and it number thirteen this is an absolute disgrace Tedy Bruschi cannot be number thirteen. Number if Vista high to low what do you tell these guys that's way too low on the list he needs to be a more prioritize patriot. This guy was the patriot way Tedy Bruschi he was the foundation of what this dynasty what this program is and you put him at thirteen. With with our look is it. No get there Ty Law. You are right I I think top ten guy it in the patriots Tennessee I think title. At least while Ty Law was here was far more important our neighbor's Q I like Teddy refused good player who's good anchor for that I'm back in court. But you're right tide lost set the identity for that defense for a long time. Even before Bill Belichick got talent embers can certainly are definitely more talent I mean Burr ski got by on smarts and just hunger or desire. Ty Law. For a couple of years there. Some could argue was the best cornerback in league not many would argue some good he was one of the best cornerbacks in the league and you know what if you go back to that Super Bowl. That first one he'd used them. He absolutely abuse of any hadn't touched on return interceptions returned moments so Ty Law yes he wasn't here for very long in the diocese he didn't play in that third several 'cause it was hard right. But his importance. He is far more. Born this team and 143. Interceptions in that division whatever was the divisional game against the colts the other Manning was just pathetic. That any huge moments you write just affected you would kill Payton made right should make him higher on this list. OK so he -- first I'm okay with China simmers sang I'm OK with where you are definitely down on the top 16 am okay with them but at him in the top seven as well. Because number twelve was DeVon McCord safety cornerback and I like DeVon McCord yeah locked solid player. But you can't have him I had an agreement among this list. I would not real on the slim why don't you on this list items she knew him because I don't think he makes enough place I think it's a leader he's good but not great he doesn't stand out to make. I don't think he's a top sixteen guy ever in the organization I don't think so. I think demo or does blow on this list because I think if you look at the second half this dynasty. McCarty has been outstanding you're right he he doesn't do a lot of things that stand out he does every little thing I. I'd like that minority I like he's game I like him but I just on this list he helped solidify. That defensive backfield especially once you moved over to safety he helped solidify that defensive backfield I think he belongs on was maybe twelve Stu hi maybe he slides into that sixteen role. There's other people that could have been on this list. Think Vince Wilfork could have been on in Europe a 100% right dental for deathly should be on as this but there's other people on this list I would throw off before I throw off Deborah McCord from an idol or wait to hear who number eleven Willie McGinest. Definitely different lines on west definitely belong and my problem here is he hears what Robert Mays right. Mcinnis a former top five draft pick was arguably the face of the franchise in the days before Brady. Says who. I just hope when Louis heat the face of the franchise it was always Bledsoe. It was Bledsoe Parcells and it was Parcells is Curtis Martin. Bledsoe was the face of the French has little woody would argue that Willie McGinest now the face of the patriots ever. I read an awesome player I don't even think he's ever the face of the defense. I think. Bruschi was more of the face of the defense and Willie McGinest that's just me and Thai anti lock Ty Law was more the face of the game mcginnis was a great player he's a great locker room presence he he really was the leader of that team think that this way. And you know we're speaking to I guess a certain generation here how many of you out there had Willie McGinest posters. Probably nobody people had the law firm near the auto or whatever or iris and Bledsoe yet you hat but that's like the face sleds so they're the police are organs and that's resolutely. Guy but mcinnis a lot of really big plays for him I don't I always go back to the against the colts. Wang. Probably faked the injury I'm assuming he faked the injury for that extra timeout and then he makes that huge stop on the goal line in the when the game moments like that. McGinest huge moments in his career but I also remember that time when he got absolutely steamrolled. I Shannon sharp who blew him America. I don't remember that play he definitely should be on the list. And he was he was Manning kill and he is why the patriots he and law those are guys. That dominated Peyton Manning during that hour and here's this guy that played well against that team the colts you're chief rival. He's a patriot he's on that list finding helpful Tom Brady and Brady has talked about how he was one of the leaders to help him try to get as is is. You know what was it before the suitable 2001 he was the one that calm Brady down in the tunnel always worries jumping all our legislators have doubts Guerrero. So the guys an impact on Tom Brady to I think I think as important as he was on the field he was even more important off the field and locker room for the team and we were absolute blown we've heard Belichick talked about yeah people were afraid young guys were afraid of Willie McGinest night intelligent he was the BST on the lockers are. Can pretend Donta hightower love love love it I think he'd been fantastic again a guy who does everything right. He he was the afterthought. Ever thought Jamie Collins was forgotten doctor hightower has been much better. And Collins has been he's been absent anchor the line backing core in the second half of a dynasty and again. We talked about a McGinest lot of big plays big moments from him you go back to that Seattle Super Bowl. That's stop on first and goal. On we set up the win for them that I can't. I can't stress enough how important moments are when I'm making judgments on people like this when you have moments. That's like DeVon according to me. Doesn't stand out because of them the lack of moments that he's had nine get they he's always in position and he's a rock solid safety. But the moments I look for those in situations like these in lists like these when you talk about the best of all time and hightower has. The strip sack you mention that great place stop and Marshawn Lynch that. Those are the moments that I look for and yet he's led the defense is top type of player. Leader. Perfect spot for him I think number ten number nine Julian Edelman. Maybe a little too high on the slopes may be a little bit and he he's been phenomenally EE they kind of establish a rule with Welker. And adult men. And sliding right into that role. And argue that's it while it's actually are so clear he's been more versatile them Welker even ones because if you look at Ellman he kind of he's more along the lines of the Troy brown and really then then Welker. In terms of his flexibility to get back there he's won the best. Hunt return men of all time if you look at the average he's been a fantastic wide receiver again we talk about moment huge plays you that I'll catch you. Barely keeping. From the car in Super Bowl. Talk about the sealock suitable. We get lit up by eight came chancellor makes that catch catch is the game winning touchdown if I have that correct look how good he was in the playoffs without go wrong right. A guy that has been. Can't say on the field all the time an adamant usually tense day on the field and he toughs everything out. And again big moments and then also a guy when needed goes to the defensive backfield and that was during the year they went to the Super Bowl. The for the second time against the giants didn't play defense leg here yeah I mean he he's done at all. He threw a touchdown pass in the divisional round game I mean that's going to have their army say. So I let me a little higher that's far may be put him where DeVon recording is mom more in the twelve range but. Yeah deserves to be on this list Rob Gronkowski number eight deserves to be on the list shouldn't be decide. As good as he has been. The fact that he has missed so much time left field is why he shouldn't be this high he should probably be sixteen simply for the fact that he can't always say on the field and you know what. They kicked ass in the playoffs and they kicked ass all the amazing comeback in several without I would put him ahead of Randy Moss so I would have sixteen. But got back towards that way. Not on the field enough didn't contribute for the second Super Bowl. And for a lot of the regular season tale. In your aegis. Then a two apps. Two absent and when you win a Super Bowl without a Mac planet that that works against you especially when you're doing this kind of exercise and making a list of the then sixteen most important people in the patriots sign Asik. He should be lower on this analysts aren't we get back here will do the top seven on the list is marking kitchen Joseph 13 point seven WEEI. You were listening to market and keeps you in on sports Radio One 03 point seven WEEI. Follow bin on Twitter. Eric Young Ben WEEI. Showed the ringer had a list the fewest patriots week we get the ringer. They ranked the sixteen most important people in the patriots dynasty caddie wanna do the choice is go down the list you tell me where you have crawl rule like which it'll sure let me start this is lists sucks this list sucks it sucks overall I. I'd like I'd like the exercise Jack but and I like lists I've gotten. Prozac. Guys RA. Player right back for the sake list. That we both enjoy reading it but you agree it sucks I yes. Especially this next when your I don't understand it number seven as we get into the top seven of the ringers list of the sixteen most important people in the patriots dynasty. Marking kit to show one of two point seven WEEI number seven Robert Kraft owner. Now now. Robert Kraft eighties and should be in the top three yes there's I don't know how you do this is a holy trinity here it's crap Belichick Embry. How do you. Matt savage makes no sense I can't wrap my. Brain around. My problem this list here. Is that. He doesn't really explain the justification for the placement. So we're just reading whatever crap he brought up here. There's no justification Hawaii's seven he should be top three and I really if you try to argue against that I think your full. That top three is Belichick Brady craft what are. Ya wanna put it in if you like while. Kraft the owner he puts it all together at number one short. No checks the mastermind everything he should be number one short politics a guy bradys the guy that's on the field he's won with a all the accomplishments short whatever. I won't argue with you whichever way it goes whether it's Kraft Belichick Brady whatever. But number seven. So random when you here's somebody's foot eleven already read this is new here's some of the names that are after this. And crashed is that seven you're gonna drive off the road. So Robert Kraft more important. Or should say less important. To the patriots then Dante Scarnecchia offensive line coach. The number six this that's stupid would you have scar on this list maybe. Maybe if I dated yet fifteen or exe and put him a fifteen or 1606. Come at him a day he's an offensive line coach. You know he's not even the offensive coordinator. He's the offensive line coaching and he's very good and he came back to team in bail them out a little bit. The six most important person. For the patriots dynasty is Dante Scarnecchia les is still glad I went with gave the geely gobble whatever his name is Leo Maia is so. He was it Scarnecchia is great a great coach he's a great. Offensive line coach Wright he's an offensive line coach Weis I think they would tell you know what OK how do you have the offensive line coach we don't have the best offensive lineman. On this list there what do you think it's Matt lighter Logan link it to whoever it is Howard they don't on the list but Dante Scarnecchia while it is an and we on this list is he won nothing here. Zero super good point when he ally great player Matt like how likely yeah. OK I I don't I said Allen again I'd I could put a month it's definitely later wait wait way behind. Robert Kraft. Number five Troy Brown wide receiver from 1993 to 2007 along run three titles retard. Arguably the epitome of the old silly patriot way part of that undefeated team as well Parnell yeah he he didn't really not much impact on that team buy out. He in 2004. Ty Law goes down pool goes down. Who stepped up with three interceptions and a huge play. It's her brown so. I I've no prob with him at five he was the best offensive weapon in 2001 for Tom Brady at 96 catches. Just under 12100 yards receiving he was fantastic that was his real big performance year. Two dozen to another Goodyear they stunk that year but another good year for him. Again we talked about moments. You go back to that AC championship game against the Steelers have returned those huge and those huge moment at MIT said that versatility on the final drive of the Super Bowl. Another huge in my signature moment this is the guy that actually belongs on Lewis I've no prom with him being a number five. Josh McDaniels various roles between two doesn't wanna 2008 and 2012. Through today notion be honest I don't at all. Just I mean yeah you wrote in the road runner is right here Josh McDaniels. Various roles I think that alone kind of tells you important has he really bin. You know he's obviously ascended through and become and got a head coaching job out of New England. But. Not I wouldn't put Josh McDaniels on this list especially if you're not having Charlie Weiss analyst. Because. Can offensive coordinator the players on the field are more important in the coaches unless you have Biotech. If you wanna try to shoehorn a minimalist sure you do an honorable mention section but summer. Four he's the fourth most important person. In iodine ridiculous I don't understand. It's lazy Tom Brady is the catalyst of that offense as brilliant as Josh McDaniels may be a great I know give all the credit to Josh. Brady is the offense that checks the calls the line the recognition of defense is. The you know he knows all the answers to the test you know what does that say about Josh the quarterback knows all the answers to the cats you got a pretty good got. You know he's able to bail you out of you screw up is in no way is number four. So let's move on now on number four on if you wanna argue that he's. High on the list I'll listen to you about whatever I'd like to hear your argument for that is but I automatically if you make an out Arianna. I have iMac I think you're dump. I don't know how long challenge at number three Adam Vinatieri kicker. 9605. We all know about the book kicks in the raiders game in the Super Bowls. This sounds tough because I do I think he's three no no zealotry but again we've we've used moments as an argument plenty of times for these other players. And it's hard to argue against Adam Vinatieri is moments without him kicking through the snow against the raiders in 2001. You'd you don't have well most ardently don't have a giant ball in the patriots dynasty he's got to be on the list and he's in my Tata. Short but three nice directory now at the end of the day he still kicker. It's still a kicker at the end of the day in your third most important person dynasty is never going to be ticker. Tom. Very good player. Huge moments. Number three. I stuck to Ralph and Cranston who wants to chime in Ralph are you gonna mourn. Good morning expressed a robot could argue. Yes and why does everybody have a problem with the Tokyo or the party. Yet you know listen in the sevens on the news we have Italian names we have to say all the time. I don't know it's tell you I can't announcements are. Everything we correct over the week end in in order to show court hearing Bill Clinton who noble book. This thing is go to community there at like a sport show people what they listen to people air oh without. So you know what I'll. It will book a lot of these guys we can't wrap their engagement. They'll become Bob Hope we'll look at that they're not welcome grow at an elevate book at all. Well you. Every buy them at all. But secret exit guide. Annual economic elected is backed up they get caught our nose to. I ticket policy and go possibly cut the cut can be treated now it goes there every single buying these guys. Fitted with the well at the bottom line the opinion is what is that this means is that. I'm sleeping with the grab a bit with everything don't treat everything he's done. He is now or 181. He didn't want to be and then the other world is an example what you have to say is that this. We would throw a lot. But you. Although it could be what shall look Orkut actual act. Well yeah it is that this is an amazing thing I think when Belichick wore it will never seen it yet but the way he manipulated the draft. We explained that fit in your system. I don't think it may be read how. Back then and what ever it is that's the that's why I hated it got. They're M audio that the old tech we will let that. All right here here Ralph mom aren't talking about the shot I will say this it was. Incredible. Howell. Came together in what I mean is Belichick. Brady. Kraft Kraft hires ballot check how old is craft when he hired Bill Belichick and how old was Bill Belichick when he got hired crap too is what news. I don't know sixties late fifties avidly kittens are so Belichick was. Honor maybe early fifties around that late forties early fifties so we are on your prime there. You're reading your birdie nine write that your coaching prime coaching really is and young man's game. Securing your prime. Kraft is in his own being primed and Brady. Was young. And what do they all came together. At the perfect time so they could Mac it was a Pete Carroll. Being in Seattle who comes and finds Russell Wilson when he 68 years old he's back and be able I mean unless coaches that 81 bright not gonna last outlawed. Belichick Brady crop their crimes all intertwined and. Yes dogs that's your top three. That's at that should be everyone's top three and it it's what ever who cares how you rank those guys and Ralph clearly. Bell text above are well above ever and that's why his argument made sense to me with the exception of he's been amazing at the draft because his track record. Is has always been that good draft he's had excellent drafts he's a really bad. These young guys on the defense side of the ball he's picked in the first round that's reset his most consistent success wide receivers puke you know so it's not perfect. I had Hewlett Chad Jack and company that was second in America so if you wanna Belichick number one aircraft as he hired that whatever you wanna do that's fine. The big question that we were talking about off the air that we have to bring to the air is who is number four. On this list who is the one outside of Brady Belichick and Kraft that was the most instrumental most important. To the patriots dynasty who with. Well we also have to mention there's a lot of people that didn't even make the slowest for some bizarre reason up. But if I get if I'm gonna go number for the most important person outside of that three. Maybe Troy Brown. Maybe Trevor in a long gonna go or you can give your reasoning for brown well again we we talked about it when we talked about Trevor here number five but it. The old and I thought it was silly at the time I still think it was silly it is still sewing now Brit the patriot way. But he was a guy who would go out there and produce he'd work his ass off. And then what you would do is and then you you could have moved anywhere he wanted to move him. You know if he year lacking cornerback he's getting going he's going to be productive and play OK you cornerback. He had big moment as a kick return Troy Brown's gonna give that he need a big catch her brows and give that to you and kind of set the hone. For the rest of the dynasty because without him as that star in 2001. And without him performing that way and at sometimes bailing Brady out. You might not have a dynasty whatsoever so I've probably put Troy Brown's number for her but I think the omission of guys like Matt Light. Ever to Seymour Vince Wilfork that's a major. And you might not find this acceptable but if we're talking about the most important people in the patriots dynasty my number four. Would be Bill Parcells. Bill Parcells. Brought in those guys those were bill's guys and who taught who was. You know part of the Bill Parcells coaching tree Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick coached here in 96. Bill Parcells drafted how many of those guys. He drafted Troy Brown he drafted Tedy Bruschi drafted Ty Law Wilmington NC drafted Willie McGinest all of whom are on this list. If you're talking about most important piece he helped set the foundation he helped turn this organization around he had a lot of those guys that he gave to bill. He knew that team when he bolted for the jets he knew they were going to be gut. Maybe that's not acceptable but I say I mean most important people in patriots dynasty. Bill Parcells gave Bill Belichick admission now bill drafty Richard Seymour drafted Tom Brady we put them over the top. That's pretty damn important guy though is if you phrase it like this guy phrased it. You're right he did help save the franchise he at least kept the franchise here in New England just by Kraft bringing amendment against crass doing. Takes him do Super Bowl my problem with Parcells though is. Several brands of the way he left Purdue really you know not really giving a crap when they go up to played the Packers in Super Bowl 97. Does make any sense I don't know how you can just blow that off. I don't either I don't understand I don't either I mean even if you're bitter in your leaving with Super Bowl but it wasn't just that it was you know. Taking Curtis Martin wisdom ya know while I waited a year he did Whittier he had to wait a year but he'd he took Curtis Martin who was the yelled that. The guy he's great at running back right. And he took him win so I have a hard time putting Parcells there because he'd eat while he did a lot of great for the organization he did some serious damage on the way that's I guess it's a good point. So I wouldn't put him up there. I I I think that's were a player should be someone like Troy Brown you could argue with me it coup that put the most important person in the patriots I see is outside of crap though check Brady. For me it's Troy Brown I'd like to hear what other people think in terms of who they would put in that number four slot. You know what I'm gonna do on the if we're gonna go that way. If you wanna talk about a player somebody who where it ended well I'll agree with you that it was Troy brown and I'll tell you why. Because if you combine maybe just kind of went through this when you combine. Leadership. There what he meant as the face of the team the offense whatever and scale. I think I picky yeah does Tedy Bruschi and and I think yeah does Ty Law. In terms of leadership what he meant to the team. Law was wasn't really one of the lead I mean. It was a great player on that defense I'm not sure they will talk to tile offer. I think they did little bit but really that was Maginnis Karen Maginnis is defense and yet you had vocal guys who Bruschi and and law were not exactly quiet there. They were leaders but did top dog for them to really was Willie McGinest. So. I don't know Troy I think Troy Brown who wants aired for what you said performance leadership and you have to add in versatility. I think that's a very important especially for a Bill Belichick team is you have to be personal. We look at guys that stay on the scene for ever because you know what they can fill that running back and then you know they're gonna go up there and play special teams. So that versatility so important to him so that's why trip. It's definitely somebody from that era. From that from the era of patriots players that established what this the first helps you learn the culture right nets. You really I think could go either way it would brown. With Bruschi out except. I would be good except Ty Law or or. I don't think Ericsson Willie McGinest at four but I would except those are if you want to put any of those three. As reasons are most important people and put them at four out except that is welcome belong almost no one because he. Could wolf first of he won and second of all he not only did he win nothing he came up unbelievably small in the biggest of moments. Ad that's exactly what I was gonna bring up we talked about the moments moments are important and the biggest moment when you think it would Welker. I tied to them come to my guess is that. I catch against Miami and he goes 99 yards for a touchdown I'll carry and then it's dropping the ball in the Super Bowl I'm sorry if you can do that you're gonna ruin the chances of Super Bowl like that. A ball that's in your hands it was not easy catch for him. But the ball here if it hits your hands it's your responsibility to tell you right now I'm definitely would be on this list wave before Wes Welker would be Deion Branch. I put him on this list before west. Both. Definitely before Wes Welker when India thought. Rules he was Super Bowl MVP for the steel was a rule MET news very good but one tool that many white values are important you know. I'm actually with you because you can ask me a threat I would put branch on this list above Welker as well as talented as amazing as Welker was look at those capsules there off the charts. A ranch in what he did not Super Bowl. Was amazed how some and then he came back to help bail this team out when they had. Problems at wide receiver position so. I'm actually with you I never thought of Deion Branch but I'm glad you brought him up I'm with him is the mark in kitchen show won a two point seven W yet. It's market and kitchen on sports Radio One 03 point seven WEEI. Look for mark on Twitter at mark dent Darrow. All right welcome back the marking kitchen Joseph went through point seven WEEI before you get out here today. And there's one more elicit the ringer did. The top 25 greatest patriots who wins and we're gonna just blow through this really quickly because we don't ask him a top five I can't top five. Number one. Where you have here generated one good. Several 51 patriots over falcons' 3428. Number 20. So brutal beating the rams twenty to seventeen what do you think of those. I'd put them he flipped him I'd put them I still think the most important our best game when every year qualifying this says is that first Super Bowl. You go into that game seventeen point dogs some like that. Against the greatest show on turf a team that seemed unbeatable. And beat you in the regular season even though it was a very good game in your choice in your place on primetime they teach you. You go in there you've got momentum on your side. And you push them around field it was 2017. We're a great final drive to that game yes this last Super Bowl was an amazing comeback but for talk about best games. Really I don't ever want want to first half ever again. I will take the first super bowl of the dynasty as the best game of this error put them back it was so important. For that for this team moving forward if they don't win that game. And then that stinker of the year in 2002 who knows Belichick still here. You lucky you can make the argument for both games. I will say that. The one that he's number one should stay number one just for the fact that the combat was so ridiculous and so historic and it went to overtime and they needed to. Two point conversions to tie the game. Go to overtime first ever Super Bowl like those overtime and you find a way to win it. I think that's the greatest win they've ever had even though they probably should have won that game by. A more comfortable margin. And I I respect everything you said about the the gay against the rams that could be argued but. I'll I'll ski one into the way they are number three patriots Seahawks who provoke major Tony it's yes or four. Number four the AFC divisional playoffs patriots sixteen raiders thirteen vows amazing amazing elect that rate is absolutely amazing as well number five. About patriots over the Panthers in Super Bowl in 2004. That game was unbelievable so that it was so much fun but when you go back and actually look at that game and Hilliard to full quarters in there were nobody scored. You're two quarters there where is absolutely explosion of offense and was so much fun to watch but to. Pretty born quarters. I do nothing for mean nothing beats beating the rams in the Super Bowl. You're huge underdogs got you beat him by three you push them around you change the NFL to a certain respect you've kind of mused that offensive explosion for a little while on the way and the changing of the game a little bit. And then you have that final drive. Where of one of the greatest coaches of all times in the Booth telling you what he don't don't do this don't do this don't do you do it anyway it's not like ticket here saying yeah but mad telling you not to do it. And you do it anyway embraced marxism down the field it was so much fun and Adam Vinatieri with the big kick to win the Super Bowl. I couldn't believe what I was watching. I couldn't believe that they were winning a championship we never seen it it was just surreal life yeah it was an amazing win. But I'll keep the list the way it is a couple amendments I would make. I would put the 2002. AFC title game with Troy Brown returning the punt and all that go to Phyllis Diller has put that number six was Bledsoe comes in for an injured dragon and throws a touchdown. Yeah I would put that number six they have that game I can find here they don't avenue number six. And even happen in DeVon and number eight number eight I got a number six a cat two dozen fifteen ravens. That would be my number nine game. And I don't know why I'm. Wherever Gardner former sixer number six Erica is a few other notes here. One game that I want inside the top ten now wasn't the 2007. Game against the chargers in San Diego. Was one of the greatest wins that I ever saw where Troy Brown had to rip the it was an interception yet ripped the ball away from. Well I remember we are set up. But Stephen Gostkowski hit a big field all they stole that game from the MVP LaDainian Tomlinson we watched that game can Richards in the state we watch that was an unbelievable game. Anytime you could have about her LaDainian Tomlinson outside line weeping and crying like a little bitch yeah I'm with you on that that was numbers up crap he said after the game no Klan. Classes orientations sessions shot up to my income you're baby he sat on the sidelines. Now of their quarterback look like massive man that game. I had it torn ACL and went out there and Phil Burress was fantastic that game and any of the Jane Thompson sitting on the sideline would you like a little girl. They had did the Jimmy go Rob Lowe game from Arizona on this list like that you need to be on this list stupid ya get done dom dot that the 2012. AFC championship game against the ravens was too high I don't have where they haven't read it should be like 25. When Billy Cundiff missed the field goal and a dead issue you would have won that game had was way too high on. And I thought they could flip the 2003 game at Indy where mcginnis had a goal line stand in the 2003 gave Denver where Belichick took the intentional safety. So just little things like that but the two dozen seven divisional game in San Diego has to be in the top ten that is the game there is no other game. That I regret more of than maybe the giants' first Super Bowl but I would have liked to have had that game on dvd. But they lost the colts in the next week in title game. But I would've loved some video record of that game in San Diego that was an awesome game that they had no business winning and mental toughness. Yeah it's funny because I was looking at this list and thinking to myself which was the best patriots team. For me. My favorite guys still think the best not put up against any other patriots team 2004 OK I am within that team was amazing that defense is meant passes. And Corey Dylan was running over everybody that year. Would you then of course you Deion Branch who had a fantastic season and amazing several that team I think the 2004 patriots team is the best patriots team of the dynasty. Better than the undefeated team that lost to the giants. Better definitely no question that team was older that team wasn't as good day and more holes on defense this is clean up a few things before we have to go. Would you take a picture with Roger Goodell. You you know I don't. Denied they deserve some heat. They deserve a little trash talk a clip but if you get a I saw this city you know turtle boy sports put out their information find Soviet item that was big deal mission to put up the girlfriends of damage they have nothing to do with it changing habits will now. It's a pretty picture that's our I mean people need to grow a little bit here thank you would I've done nobody has I don't care about taking pictures of anybody let alone Roger Goodell I don't care. About taking a picture was someone who's a celebrity doesn't mean anything to me. I think people should layoff and who cares whose instance stupid little thing. I don't know fourteen was railing against them for Jerry were thought you know it's it's ridiculous to think that. You know they should be stripped of their patriots fan him and all that nonsense come on. Grow up it's a picture put dryers in adult for a minute please not that idea I would have done it but it's not that big yeah well I agree and discussion big week coming up on the Sports Radio network WEEI here we have patriots Monday starts tomorrow Bill Belichick joins deal Halloween teeth at 305. And of course Tuesday and Wednesday we've got the Jimmy Fund radio telephone. As always we could use your help call and leave a donation. That starts on Tuesday a lot of great guests are lined up lot of amazing interviews of amazingly brave and strong young people were battling cancer. And they need your help. And they need to borrow so we'd appreciate if she doesn't listen pollen leave a donation again that starts on Tuesday with curtain down in Tuesday morning live at Fenway Park. Please call in and donate an incredible cause an incredible couple days there on the telethon so I'll wells said. Coming up next year under BER one through point seven will jump into the Brad Owens relic shell to Hatteberg. Rasheed I know. I don't wanna go to Providence I love you you're great city I'm sorry for what they duty with. Bradford drone to have a very fiery showed it at Yahoo! a fiery show that their disagreeing about the same craft a disagreement every week that they don't know who should be the media star of the week. Very true. Is that really true and it's the talk about Jesus. I have found that Providence that's coming up next next the Red Sox tonight. Sunday night baseball yankees Sox the series finale from the Bronx Chris Sale. Is on the mound for Boston. So we'll see they can win that series and extend the lead and win the division. They can extend the made by either win the division tonight so they can win the division tonight if they win. Will be back next week more patriots more Red Sox. More mark in kitchen shelves of the marking kitchen show one after point seven WEEI Avago.